Disable Modifier Key in a Specific Chrome Tab

[SirCharles]

Hi all,

I'm trying to find a Keyboard Maestro solution to this annoying issue that occurs in Outlook in Chrome.

In summary, when you press the Option key in Outlook, it displays letters that can be used to navigate the menus, e.g.:

And apparently, there's no way to disable this setting...

In my case, I have remapped a bunch of Command+<key> shortcuts to Option+<key> using Keyboard Maestro, e.g. ⌘+c --> ⌥+c for copy, etc. This means that when I'm in Outlook and I go to copy or paste something, the command is interrupted by the annoying Outlook shortcut that can't be disabled.

Given this background, here's what I'm hoping to do:

• Disable the option key specifically in Outlook tabs in Chrome only when it is pressed by itself. (My (possibly ill-founded) hope is that when it is pressed with a second key, it won't trigger the annoying Outlook shortcut).

Per this post, I was thinking that I could add an If Then Else action to limit the macro to Outlook tabs in Chrome; however, it seems that you can't use only a modifier key as the hot key trigger in a macro.

Any other ideas are welcome!

[kevinb]

If the issue is limited to Chrome, would it not be easier just to use a different browser for Outlook?

There are utilities such as Choosy which can call up a different browser automatically depending upon the URL.

The idea that one Web browser should be used for everything seems widespread, but, one way and another, it can be limiting.

[Nige_S]

@SirCharles

In summary, when you press the Option key in Outlook

Check again -- for me it's when you release the Option key, or long-press it. That means that it won't for example, stop an Option-based hot key trigger from working but will show those stupid tips when you release.

You can get rid of them again by pausing your macro until the Option key is released and then simulating an Option key press:

Because it's a function of the Outlook web app there's nothing really to be done except wait for MS to rectify its mistake (cue weak laughter...).

@kevinb

If the issue is limited to Chrome, would it not be easier just to use a different browser for Outlook?

Because it's part of the web app it happens in all the browsers I've tried, no getting round it.

[SirCharles]

Thanks @Nige_S!! This looks pretty promising!

And you're right, I hadn't noticed, but the menu hints appear to be triggered when you release the option key.

Just to make sure I'm following, you're suggesting I change my macro to this:

Whether or not that's what you meant, that seems to have done it. Now when I copy something in the Outlook web app, the menu hints flicker but don't screw with my work.

[Nige_S]

@SirCharles

Just to make sure I'm following, you're suggesting I change my macro to this:

That should do it.

But I'd probably suggest you get rid of that macro -- all those macros -- entirely!

Why are you remapping ⌥C to ⌘C? If it's because the ⌘-combos cramp you hand or similar, remap the keys in the OS so the physical ⌥ key acts as the ⌘ key and vice versa:

Your life will be much easier if you consistently, completely, swap the keys than if you have them sometimes swapped, sometimes not.

[kevinb]

@Nige_S

@kevinb

If the issue is limited to Chrome, would it not be easier just to use a different browser for Outlook?

Because it's part of the web app it happens in all the browsers I've tried, no getting round it.

I see. "... this annoying issue that occurs in Outlook in Chrome" came across as a specific diagnosis to me! Too bad.

Files "Outlook" next to "Firefox" in the Don't Even Go There drawer.

[SirCharles]

Add literally all Microsoft products to that drawer!

[SirCharles]

Thanks for confirming!

I found that my above version was causing intermittent use of the shortcut to be missed in Chrome (probably due to the pause). So I updated the macro(s) to this form which only triggers in Outlook online and no other Chrome tabs, and that seems optimal:

---

I wasn't going to mention it but my actual situation is even weirder than just remapping Option to Command intermittently. But, since you asked... .

What I've actually done is remapped Fn (The Globe Key) to Option at the OS level and then mapped Option to act as Command using Keyboard Maestro for most Command shortcuts I use regularly.

How did I arrive at such a strange configuration? Well, my first computers were Windows computers which have keyboards set up like this:

VS Mac keyboards that are set up like this:

On Windows, Ctrl (which more-or-less has the functionality of Command) is located by the pinky which is a much more logical/comfortable placement IMO. For example, the shortcut ⌘⇧V to paste text without formatting on Mac is just gross to type. I also greatly prefer CtrlTab and Ctrl⇧Tab for cycling through tabs in the browser on Windows. With my remaps I can do that with the "same" keys on my Mac. On Windows, I also loved the AltTab, Alt⇧Tab shortcuts for cycling through programs, so it's great that you get similar functionality with ⌘Tab on Mac (especially with the handy AltTab tool).

More generally though, between Tmux, Neovim, and the 57 other programs and extensions I use regularly, it's gotten to the point that I pretty much have to consult Defkey to see which programs already use a given shortcut before I define a new one (so that I don't accidentally configure one I'll regret). These days, to avoid clashes, I often use two or three modifier keys for my shortcuts, and typing ⌥⇧<key> or ⌥⇧⌘<key> is a lot more comfortable when Fn is replaced by ⌥.

Anyway, that explains why this is one of my all-time favorite cartoons:

[Nige_S]

@SirCharles

Well, my first computers were Windows computers...

I did put in a bit about "if you are recovering Windows user" -- then took it out for being too snarky...

@SirCharles

...it's gotten to the point that I pretty much have to consult Defkey to see which programs already use a given shortcut before I define a new one...

Which is why I think this is the wrong approach. Either accept you are a Mac user and get used to the default Mac shortcuts, only changing those that (like Paste Plain) really get your goat. Or accept that you're a Windows user on the wrong platform and globally re-map the keys so they behave like a Windows keyboard, again only changing those that get your goat.

The closer to the metal you make these changes the fewer the problems. If the global System Settings approach doesn't work because you want different key bindings in different apps, use Karabiner Elements (which has frontmost_application rules). Either way, you can then use KM to modify the (far fewer) commands where you want to override the general pattern.

[kevinb]

@Nige_S

@SirCharles

...it's gotten to the point that I pretty much have to consult Defkey to see which programs already use a given shortcut before I define a new one...

Which is why I think this is the wrong approach.

It might indicate an imperfect approach if one cannot recall most hotkeys ("muscle memory"), but not when setting up hotkeys (planning). As I have mentioned in previous discussions on the forum, I keep a list of all hotkeys which I update as I either define or become aware of a "new" hotkey (latest version: a Numbers spreadsheet with two columns). Yes it's a geeky administration task, but it pays off for me.

@Nige_S

The closer to the metal you make these changes the fewer the problems.

Absolutely. This is why I bang on about (and bang on) programmable keyboards every once in a while here (example). I am mentioning the subject again because @SirCharles seeks "more logical/comfortable placement". These are matters that can be put fully under a user's control, with the right hardware.

@Nige_S

use Karabiner Elements (which has frontmost_application rules).

A powerful gateway dr*g.

[Nige_S]

@kevinb

It might indicate an imperfect approach if one cannot recall most hotkeys ("muscle memory"), but not when setting up hotkeys (planning).

I'm not talking about the problem of many hot key combos for many macros.

I think the "wrong approach" here is having many macros that redefine modifier key bindings when OP could instead redefine the keys -- or learn to use the ones God^H^H^H Steve Jobs intended

[kevinb]

@Nige_S

I think the "wrong approach" here is having many macros that redefine modifier key bindings when OP could instead redefine the keys -- or learn to use the ones God^H^H^H Steve Jobs intended

Right, yes.

@SirCharles

For example, the shortcut ⌘^V to paste text without formatting on Mac is just gross to type.

Not inherently "on Mac" but, arguably, "on a conventional Mac keyboard". ⌘^V could not be easier for me to type–and, please, I don't mean to sound smug about that! I'm just emphasising the point that both @Nige_S and I have made that there are low-level solutions to what is the real, underlying problem of the hardware interface fundamentally not suiting the user.

[SirCharles]

So... update, the KM macro I labeled as the solution causes just enough lag (especially when pasting) to be noticeably annoying. So I think I'll stop trying to "fix" this and live with the Outlook pain until Microsoft eventually fixes it.

@kevinb generally speaking I subscribe to a keyboard-centric way of working (e.g. see this book) and don't own a mouse. I used a Kinesis Advantage2 for a while but even with Vimium, I found that I needed mouse/trackpad control just often enough that it wasn't worth sticking with it. If ever they come out with a version of that keyboard that includes a solid trackpad, I'll be first in line to buy one.

More generally, I can mostly recall my shortcuts and am more-or-less happy with them. The main issue is that I have so many that I typically need to use multiple modifier keys for new ones to avoid clashes. How do you guys comfortably type shortcuts like ⌥⇧<key> or ⌥⇧⌘<key> on Mac? Do you use both hands?

@Nige_S I generally agree with your philosophy of not having many macros that redefine modifier key bindings. However, I don't know about you but I never use the Fn key on Mac, so I don't have any qualms about assigning a more useful key to it and creating a few macros for it, as needed. I hadn't heard of Karabiner-Elements before so thanks for mentioning it. Not sure if I dare open another can of worms in this area but I might give it a try.

[Nige_S]

@SirCharles

However, I don't know about you but I never use the Fn key on Mac...

On the keyboard you've got? All the time! It changes the Backspace key to Forward Delete and Return to Enter, to give just two examples.

[SirCharles]

@Nige_S

...It changes the Backspace key to Forward Delete and Return to Enter, to give just two examples.

Huh, I didn't know about those! I use ^D (remapped to ⇧Delete with KM) for forward delete and ⇧Return for Enter.

This video gives a pretty comprehensive overview of what the Fn key can do and most of it seems redundant IMO. E.g. I can quickly launch any app with less keyboard navigation using ⌘Space.

[kevinb]

@SirCharles

@kevinb generally speaking I subscribe to a keyboard-centric way of working (e.g. see this book) and don't own a mouse.

I'm the same, except that I favour a Magic Trackpad 2 over a mouse.

I used a Kinesis Advantage2 for a while but even with Vimium, I found that I needed mouse/trackpad control just often enough that it wasn't worth sticking with it.

I know the Kinesis Advantage 2 has its fans. To me, the subjects of programmable keyboards, split keyboards and the use of mice/trackpads are theoretically separate matters, but of course the concerns overlap. For instance, a split keyboard in two physically separated halves can leave space for a trackpad in the middle, should that be desired! For my own setup, I just have the trackpad next to the right half, though.

Maybe you could Blu-tak a trackpad on top of the Advantage.

The main issue is that I have so many that I typically need to use multiple modifier keys for new ones to avoid clashes.

I don't know anything about the "SmartSet Programming Engine" that the Advantage 2 uses, but with the ubiquitous QMK firmware, to name one, it is possible to have multiple layers to output from a different set of keycodes (or combinations of keycodes) while any key is held. That can be like having any number of extra modifiers, to some extent.

Even without that, though, the permutations available with ⇧, ⌃, ⌥ and ⌘ go a long way! ⇧⌃ are often free, and I quite often use that combination for app-specific shortcuts. Of course there is also "hyper"—all four of those modifiers at once—and I get frequent use from ⇧⌃⌘ for app switching.

How do you guys comfortably type shortcuts like ⌥⇧ or ⌥⇧⌘ on Mac? Do you use both hands?

I don't know if my answer will be of any use beyond amusement. My method is rather... niche.

For me, it's...

• AD or ;K for ⇧⌥
• ADF or ;KJ for ⇧⌥⌘

... because I use home row mods on a (split) ortholinear keyboard (a Lily58). So the home row keys, upon which my fingers are already resting by default, double up as modifiers.

Challenge level in tweaking home row modifiers to your typing style: high (some will say it is impossible for them – and that is after one has already suffered brainache from adapting to a radically different keyboard layout!).

Ease of use in reaching modifiers: N/A. No reaching is required!

I don't know about you but I never use the Fn key on Mac,

No, never. It's just a hardware switch so I don't need it.

I hadn't heard of Karabiner-Elements before so thanks for mentioning it.

It's really clever software that surely must take non-programmable keyboards as far as they can go.

Not sure if I dare open another can of worms in this area but I might give it a try.

MOAR WURMS!

[Nige_S]

@SirCharles

...and most of it seems redundant IMO.

Many of the ways you can interact with your Mac are "redundant" -- they're there to give you another way of doing something. Pick the way you prefer, ignore/turn off the ones you don't use.

Many "defaults" also get used by applications. For example, Command-Spacebar gives you Zoom mode in Photoshop if you've turned off or changed the default Spotlight setting -- in which case you'd welcome the Fn key method.

More choices are good. More choices mean, almost by definition, redundancy.

@SirCharles

Huh, I didn't know about those!

Please take the following with love with which it is offered...

We're primarily a Mac institution, and I've helped a lot of Windows users transition to a Mac over the years. So I've heard an awful lot of "Windows is better -- why can't my Mac do...?" followed by "I didn't know that!" when I show them it can. It can take them a while to realise that what is "obvious" or "natural" on Windows is actually just what they've got used to over the years, so there's going to be some re-learning for a different platform.

The happy users are the ones that go on to embrace the Mac way of doing things -- and the ones that give up and go back to a Windows box The unhappy users are the ones who try to make their Mac work like Windows and are constantly rubbing against those little friction points -- and, eventually, they give up and take one of the "happy user" routes instead.

And, speaking as someone who uses both platforms (plus various others) -- it isn't that difficult to be in "Mac mode" on a Mac and "Windows mode" when using a PC, including using the default modifiers.