I have to chime in here....
I was a Quickeys 'power user' for 20 years.....
I was completely intimidated when I first switched over (a few years ago) to KM....
Now I could not do without it and absolutely love it....
I needed to spend time working with it and asking questions on the forum, which by the way, is the best forum on the net.
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Agree with @BernSh, the interface could be simpler. As I mentioned, it took me a whole year before deciding to use the app, and now I wish I had started using it sooner.
Thanks for posting that link to other user interfaces.
A more colorful interface like Scratch and similar, might be a good way to make it more welcoming and visible how some actions like If/Then/Else work.
Or Apple's own Shortcuts app.
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I've written it before in this thread and I'll do it again: Keyboard Maestro's interface is just horrible. Yes, Keyboard Maestro is extremely useful. And yes, I bought the update to version 10.
But look at the release notes: Just a bunch of bullet points. No details of what it might be good for. No examples, not even screenshots!
Sorry, @peternlewis, but this also shows a massive arrogance: "Here, you victims, receive my gifts. And if you have problems, just ask in this forum. It's the best forum in the world. Full of great people, here you will be helped."
That may be true - but I would prefer software that just puts in a little effort and reaches out to the user. Then I don't have to rely on other people's help either. Until then, Keyboard Maestro is an unfinished product for me ā even in Version 10.
I think Keyboard Maestro is excellent - but certainly not beyond reproach, as some people here make it out to be.
First off, your message is borderline rude, and if you want to be rude you can take it off my forum and be rude elsewhere, it's not acceptable here.
If you have constructive comments, then make them, but saying the āinterface is just horribleā is not constructive, it's just mean and pointless.
Secondly, this comment āBut look at the release notes: Just a bunch of bullet points. No details of what it might be good for. No examples, not even screenshots!ā is patently incorrect - firstly, Keyboard Maestro new release information is more thoroughly documented than just about any other program (except BBEdit). Secondly, the Whatās New user manual section is painstakingly linked to the rest of the documentation on the wiki and the discussions of the feature request on the forum. I defy you to find any other software better referenced and linked.
This is rude. Again.
Nobody says it is beyond reproach, but your comments are rude and non-constructive. Repeat the behaviour and you will be suspended from the forum.
Thanks.
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I am struggling to think of many other software packages with a better combination of support from both documentation and Forum - nor one with better value for the price.
Sure there are some complex features which help in specific advanced situations (and lots of help to learn how to use them). There are also many other basic features which are intuitive enough to not require any documentation at all and which are powerful enough to justify the price of admission.
If you want something dirt-simple not requiring learning terminology, then try Shortcuts for free; while it's very nice, Keyboard Maestro is in another league in terms of capability.
I think it's amazing that a small developer like Peter can survive in the current tech climate; truth is, he adds stunning value to the Mac ecosystem and achieves capabilities that companies 10,000 times larger than his do not.
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Hmm, it is not? I've bent Hammerspoon to do the same things I did with KM - now it was a horrible interface. Or, better said, a lack of it. KM is fine and easy to grasp and to debug and it is the main reason I am back - KM macros are easy to understand and easy to maintain as a result. You don't have to search for code examples on github and read api descriptions.
What a lot of people in the end do not accept that if you want to explain a complex task to a computer, you have to program. And no amount of UI sugar will let this complexity disappear. I've used and/or use Hazel, Alfred, Launchbar and in each one of them I was forced to write scripts in sh/AS/python for any non-trivial task. KM is "unfinished" the same way an empty source code file is "unfinished" - it can be everything, but you have to know what you want and how you can get there. It is the price we have to pay for powerful tools and I don't see it disappear in foreseeable future.
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I think you dismiss the possibility of design. Design can take as much intellectual effort as any depth in any other endeavor. I think the Einstein quote about simplicity being genius points to that.
Generally, the less one knows the more gets said. The quote about āā¦those who know donāt sayā reflects this.
A good example is creating a simple icon that immediately and clearly identifies some activity. I think you'll have an expanded appreciation of the brilliance and power that design offers.
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We can just look at the existing tools: there are more powerful tools with more complexity, like Hammespoon as well as less powerful tools with less complexity (Shortcuts, Automator).
My point is: KM did already traded in some power for the possibility to offer an UI. An UI basically works by limiting the possibilities, but offering more convenience to an inexperienced user. Which is a fine trade-off, but people do not appreciate it as such and keep asking for more convenience while being drawn to such tools because of what they can do with them.
In the end it is an old discussion in many communities with similar problems, like Emacs or Alfred. As an author, you can somehow mitigate the effects by implementing a mechanism to share the workflows and provide a good documentation. But you should never appeal to people who complain that they are irritated by possibilities of a tool, because your product and community are kept alive by people who embrace it. It is maybe the main reason why Alfred is doing fine and Launchbar is almost dead - Alfred always tried to build a community about its power-users and made it easy to share the results of their work.
In the first post, the thread author complains about a very technical way of data handling. Well, Data/Time handling is a very hard domain for a plenty of reasons in every programming language. Even more, in most of them it is a very definition of hell on earth. Now, of course, thread author does not has to know anything about it. But Peter is also not a magician and there is no way he can make this complexity disappear: it is already there, in the frameworks of macOS and in other languages KM interacts with. What would it mean to make an easy UI for Time/Data handling? Either to drastically limit the possibilities to some subset or to remove it altogether, hurting more technically advanced users. Most tools would just avoid to deal with it at all and would offer a possibility to execute scripts in other programming languages.
P.S.: By coincidence, I am also a frontend developer in my day job and there is no power of design which can make the complexity of a workflow disappear. In business, if complex workflows require complex UI users have to be trained to be efficient with them. A good and concise UI has its value, don't get me wrong, but the amount of magic it can provide to complex workflows is limited and often even harmful. Old UIs, while being absolutely ugly, were often efficient because they use less space, are more keyboard-centric and do not waste time for UI animations. It is a trade-off: you have to know who is your main audience, because needs of 'innocent' and power-users are often completely opposite.
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Writing has design embodied as well.
Thereās a couple of threads here to keep distinct.
One (that I suggested), a tiered KM with a simple tier , stripped of most of its functionality, for those wanting some non-programmatic level of options, fitted with a simplified interface.
Another thread emerging is a more general discussion about design.
When asked, I havenāt provided more needed details and examples as I do not think Peter is committed to go in that direction. So Iām gesturing and not speaking committedly.
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This thread has run it's course so I am locking it.
If you have specific, constructive suggestions, feel free to post on a new topic.
If people want to debate UI in general, find a forum on UI design or debating.
Thanks.
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