Facing KM-Problems using macOS HighSierra 10.13.6

Nr.5-need_input · July 10, 2020, 3:01pm

Hello to everyone in this forum. I'm facing a huge problem.
All of us here use Macs (of course, what else ??!) and love to use Keyboard Maestro to streamline our daily workflow and get more power out of it.
I can say that this software has made my work a lot easier and I'm learning to use Keyboard Maestro every day.

Unfortunately, I am one of those users who still work with macOS 10.13.6 HighSierra, and I have to. I can't upgrade to 10.14 Mojave or Catalina without using the unofficial patch, which I don't want to do.

So here is my problem. As mentioned above, I use HighSierra including the latest version of Apple's security update 2020-003.

I have already completed an odyssey with Clean Install of all my apps, and even a complete rebuild of my macro collection.
It seems that there is some kind of problem at system level with the current version 9.0.5, Keyboard Maestro keeps crashing when creating new macros, or macros are not executed but aborted, macros like KMFAM cannot be installed.......... the list of enumerations is long... But maybe one more thing: I have to do a SMC reset at least 2-3 times a day because KM causes problems.

I have to work with HighSierra 10.13.6 including the latest security update and it drives me crazy!
So far I never had problems...

In case it might have something to do with my Mac

Here are some model data:

Model: MacBook Pro A1278 mid. 2010
Processor: Intel Core2Duo
HDD: 1TB SSD
RAM: 16 GB (totally maxed out)

Maybe somebody knows a solution?!

Many thanks and greetings from Germany

jonathonl · July 10, 2020, 7:35pm

Unless you REALLY need some of features of say Keyboard Maestro 9, you might be better off with an earlier version. Earlier versions are stable and do most things one wants. This is probably one for Peter to advIse on and maybe send you an activation code for an earlier version.

mrpasini · July 10, 2020, 7:42pm

I've been running the current version of Keyboard Maestro on the latest update of High Sierra for nearly a year now on a Mid-2010 MacBook Pro with no issues at all.

I too put a 1-TB SSD in it but my model (MacBookPro6,1) maxes RAM out at 8-GB. I wonder if yours does too?

Nr.5-need_input · July 10, 2020, 11:03pm

You're right it is the same MacBook Pro I am Using. Mine is totally maxed out with a 16 GB Ram-Kit bought from Macsales.com which I am using in my MacBook Pro from Hour one.
Even the Samsung SSD with 1TB Storage was bought there.

I don't know what I could say about that... What I can say is that my MacBook Pro is my Daily Driver and I am struggling working with KM since the last Security Update.

On some days it seems to be working... on others I can't work on a macro without crashing Editor. Whether I want to rename a Macro Action or moving a Macro from my Test Group to that Group or Palette that it is supposed to. - Or a very nice example of a crash using the Editor - just scrolling using BetterTouchTool and a Mouse, a external Trackpad or the internal.....
It stresses me out ...

If I didn't have to use my Mac up to date, maybe I would not use it with Apples Security Patch - because of the fact that I had no Issues before Security Patch 2020-003 - I can not tell what the Problem is .... You're a lucky Guy - I wish I could say that I don't have any Issues using KM 9.0.5 ....

Nr.5-need_input · July 10, 2020, 11:17pm

Maybe, you're right and that could help me ... but what Version should that be ?? Remembering when I bought KM the Version was 9.0 - and I never had issues with KM since that Day.
Before I began rebuilding my Macro Collection I tried using Version 9.0.2 to 9.0.5 and what I can say is that every Version causes me the same Issues I was reporting earlier.

mrpasini · July 10, 2020, 11:34pm

No lucky at all, believe me .

16-MB RAM is 8-MB beyond the spec for that model. It can't address more than 8-GB. That could be the issue. Try taking an 8-GB stick out so you have just 8-GB and see if things don't settle down.

I do have a 13-inch MacBook Pro of the same vintage ( (8,1) with 16-GB Ram and a smaller spinner hard disk in it that also has no problems at all running Keyboard Maestro.

So I suspect your problem isn't Keyboard Maestro itself. It's just the bearer of bad news.

Nr.5-need_input · July 11, 2020, 12:11am

Before I write me nuts just take a look at some Screenshots I made from my Mac Specs a few minutes ago...

Here you are ... I am sorry to say that but in my Opinion there are no Hardware issues addressing my Ram-Kit.

mrpasini · July 11, 2020, 12:34am

I think all you're proving is that the chips themselves are good. The Mac won't address all that space. See MacBook Pro (17-Inch, Mid 2010) at Crucial. Only 8-GB.

Nr.5-need_input · July 11, 2020, 12:57am

Maybe you are right when it comes to that MacBook Pro model. but I am using the MBP 7.1 13" Model. - and yes, Apple sold it with max 8GB Ram but it works with some 3rd party RAMs like the 16 GB - Kit from the Hardware Seller MacSales.com

I had no Issues working with 16GB since day 1. It is a lot faster and I have no issues running from time to time more than 12 UI Apps at the same time.... so there is no issue addressing so much ram either.

JMichaelTX · July 11, 2020, 3:35am

I really doubt that KM 9.05 is the cause of the issue here, but one can't really diagnose a general problem statement. It is good background to have, but we need specifics to work with.

So I'd suggest this:

It is most likely due to HS permissions, security, and/or accessibility issues. So start with a careful review of this, even though it is not HS specific:
- TIP: Resolving Catalina/Mojave Accessibility/Security Permissions Issues
Pick the macro which most consistently fails/crashes and provide us with details:
1. upload your macro
2. Detailed steps to reproduce the problem
3. Screenshot when it crashes
4. If KM crashes, then be sure to complete the KM crash report.
5. KM Engine Log entries when it fails. Maybe this macro will help:
  - MACRO: Display Last KM Macro Error Ver 4 [Pub]
- If the macro won't run, maybe you can use one of the scripts to export the KM log

Finally, may I ask why you can't upgrade to Mojave?
I've been running Mojave for over a year now with no issues.

P.S. The above macro may help, maybe it is simpler if I just give you the AppleScript to export the last 100 lines from the KM Engine log:

property ptyScriptName : "Open Last N KM Log Lines in BBEdit"
property ptyScriptVer : "1.0"
property ptyScriptDate : "2020-05-24"
property ptyScriptAuthor : "JMichaelTX"


set numLogLines to "100"

set cmdStr to "tail -r -n " & numLogLines & " ~/\"Library/Logs/Keyboard Maestro/Engine.log\""
set logListStr to do shell script cmdStr

tell application "BBEdit"
  activate
  set oDoc to make new text window with properties {contents:logListStr}
  tell oDoc to select insertion point before its text
  
end tell

You can run this script from Script Editor or Script Debugger.
It creates a new document in BBEdit.
Save that document, zip it, and upload to forum.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

peternlewis · July 11, 2020, 5:58am

If you have a crash (or freeze), report it to support, and include the crash report (or Activity Monitor sample).

Crash reports are in the ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports folder.

You can get to ~/Library (which is in your Home folder, but generally hidden from you) in the Finder by holding down the shift (or option) key and selecting Library from the Go menu in the Finder.

JMichaelTX · July 11, 2020, 6:16am

Peter, many apps I'm familiar with bring up a "Crash Report" for the user to fill in the next time the app is opened after a crash. Does KM do this?

peternlewis · July 11, 2020, 6:20am

Yes, it asks to send the report to us automatically.

But i get very few crash reports these days, and no recent ones from 10.13. So often it can be that "crash" means something different to technically crashing.

JMichaelTX · July 11, 2020, 6:33am

That's good to know.
I did not know because KM has never crashed on me.

Nr.5-need_input · July 11, 2020, 12:05pm

First of all, thank you for your suggestions @JMichaelTX .
I´ll try to give my very best to give you all that Information you´re asking for. I will just take some time.

What I can tell you for now is that my MBP 7.1 is NOT in Apples List of Supported Devices for macOS 10.14 Mojave or later.
Maybe I could use the unofficial "Mojave Patcher" from the Developer called "dosdude1" only with dark mode settings (because of NO METAL Graphics Support) - but I don't know if it won't cause any issues either. For now that my MBP 7.1 is my One and only Mac I can work with I would not try doing this.

For your other suggestions I´ll come back later.

Many thanks that you all try to help me in such a short amount of time.

Nr.5-need_input · July 11, 2020, 12:12pm

Thank you @peternlewis - already know this I have some Hazelrules working for me to copy every new ".crash - File" whatever Application it is from and backup to a Dropbox Folder with reporting about that via Notification.

Nr.5-need_input · July 11, 2020, 12:36pm

Sorry to say that but that is one example I can report about - KM should ask me every Time when I am reopening it after a crash. But it DOESN´T DO THAT on my Mac. Even Asking for sending a Report to Apple is NOT working that way either. I don't know why but that is the Fact I can tell you about.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I don't have set it to send Diagnostics and/or Reports to Apple automatically - but that is totally crap to me. It should work - EVERY TIME ....

Here is the last and only one zipped ".crash - File" form KM I could find for the last 2 or maybe 3 months???!

Keyboard Maestro_2020-07-03-182823_Kurtys-MacBook-Pro.crash.zip (23,1 KB)

On that day if I can remember it right it was also the last time I were asked from my Device to send Report to Apple. I Took a copy of the displayed Text and send it manually to support.

I am really sorry to give you such bad news to work with @peternlewis.

Greetings from Germany

peternlewis · July 12, 2020, 1:49am

Keyboard Maestro scans the ~/Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports when the editor launches looking for reports that start with “Keyboard Maestro” and end with “.crash”. Do such files exist?

I have in fact received that crash report, although it does not have an email address associated with it - check your Keyboard Maestro General preferences and see if it is set to Always send your diagnostic reports.

I also have four others over the last four months from you with the same crash issue.

That crash report is pretty easy to read in broad terms:

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libobjc.A.dylib               	0x00007fff595dde9d objc_msgSend + 29
1   com.stairways.keyboardmaestro.editor	0x0000000100d3f0dc NewScrollWheel(NSScrollView*, objc_selector*, NSEvent*) + 221
2   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f8f056f forwardMethod + 211
3   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f9da368 -[NSView scrollWheel:] + 359
4   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f8f056f forwardMethod + 211
5   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f8f056f forwardMethod + 211
6   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f9da368 -[NSView scrollWheel:] + 359
7   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f8f056f forwardMethod + 211
8   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f8f056f forwardMethod + 211
9   com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f9da368 -[NSView scrollWheel:] + 359
10  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f8f056f forwardMethod + 211
11  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f9da368 -[NSView scrollWheel:] + 359
12  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f8f056f forwardMethod + 211
13  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f9da368 -[NSView scrollWheel:] + 359
14  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff300bc43d -[NSWindow(NSEventRouting) _reallySendEvent:isDelayedEvent:] + 5040
15  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff300bac70 -[NSWindow(NSEventRouting) sendEvent:] + 497
16  com.stairways.keyboardmaestro.editor	0x0000000100d903a0 -[IntegratedWindow sendEvent:] + 142
17  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2ff1c0d6 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) sendEvent:] + 2110
18  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f77c87d -[NSApplication run] + 812
19  com.apple.AppKit              	0x00007fff2f74ba3a NSApplicationMain + 804
20  com.stairways.keyboardmaestro.editor	0x0000000100b2e3db main + 155
21  libdyld.dylib                 	0x00007fff5a206015 start + 1

Basically it is crashing in response to the system going nuts with the scroll wheel processing. Other than your five reports, I have about 20 others over the last 12 months (probably since the release of version 9) (so two crashes per month total on average). Reports are not limited to 10.13, but happen on other versions of OS X as well.

If you can determine exactly when using the scroll wheel crashes, in a reproducible way, that would definitely help narrow down the cause.

But this only explains five editor crashes in about as many months - not something I'm happy about, but far less than what you are describing in terms of problems.

It doesn't indicate any crashing creating macros (unless you just mean crashing in the editor generally when using the scroll wheel).

And this would not have anything to do with “macros are not executed but aborted”, and I don't know what you mean by “macros like KMFAM cannot be installed”.

“But maybe one more thing: I have to do a SMC reset at least 2-3 times a day because KM causes problems.”

I don't even know what that means - what on earth would require an SMC reset? And how is it related to Keyboard Maestro? Resetting your SMS should be a last resort - I don't know that I have ever done it myself, I can't recall ever suggesting it as a good idea for anyone.

You say “the list of enumerations is long” - but a) you need to solve one at a time, they are not all related, and b) without enumerating them they cannot be solved.

There are thousands of people running Keyboard Maestro 9.x still on 10.13, and I get no stream of reports of issues, so problems in general should be either rare, or specific to particular situations.

As far as this crash goes, if you can narrow down the cause, which is related to processing a scroll wheel event and probably depends on exactly what is shown or exactly what the mouse is over at the time, then I can look in to it further (and I will do my own investigation as well to see if I can figure it out).

As far as everything else, you need to deal with one specific problem at a time, there is not likely to be any kind of systemic issue.

Nr.5-need_input · July 12, 2020, 12:16pm

Yes, there is one File at this Path just because of my Clean Install a couple days ago. It is the same „.crash -File“ that I have uploaded recently.

No, it is set to ask for sending diagnosting reports.

Bildschirmfoto 2020-07-12 um 11.12.02

Thank you for translation into human like language what is going on with KM. It is good to know that I am not alone with that issue....

Of course I can .... It happens when I am working on one of my Palette-Trigger-Macros for use with BetterTouchTool and an AppleScript in Finder and maybe in Path Finder, too.
This is the Macro for now ...

Since that there are so much different File-Extensions whose I want to trigger a Context based Pallette for, it is growing. I began to group them all into different categories - and so I am using one "Switch/Case-Action" for each category so that it is easier for me to edit that "Monster".
My goal for this macro is that I have to remember only one Gesture and/or Command for every Input - Device I want to use with it.

Bildschirmfoto 2020-07-12 um 13.03.51

Just some Palettes to show what my Macro above is for. If I had set up some Palettes of these I would. show that as screenshot, too - but that is not the thing.
For now it is should be a good reference for you to work with. It is just one of many possibilities to show where that "scroll wheel processing" is crashing.

This shot is showing what I was talking about grouping the expected FileExtensions into categories.

Macro Part

Yes you´re right ... just five .... I just can tell you what issues I have ... and to prevent that - I am not a Person who is writing bullshit...

Here is another short example what drives me nuts - my little "Toggle Edit Mode - Macro" for KM. It is a very simple one and should be running every time because it has no complex modification.

That's one of a few other ones I can tell that they will be aborted.

Okay ... maybe you don't use that very great macro but @JMichaelTX should even know wich Macro I am talking about. it is the KMFAM Favourite Macros and Actions Set created by @DanThomas. It gets a timeout a few seconds after opening the Script-based Installer Application while choosing the Path for the Resource Files.

I am a everyday-User of this Macro and I had no issues before.

For now it should give you some information to work with. Maybe I can come back later for more Info if you need more.

Greetings from Germany

JMichaelTX · July 13, 2020, 2:19am

Thanks for showing the image of your Macros -- that definitely helps.
However, to really diagnose the issue we need the Macro file as well.
Can you please upload your macro ?

Facing KM-Problems using macOS HighSierra 10.13.6

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